The Angry Drunk - Latest Comments in How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Bucky Slingshot — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 03:42:37 -0000

All formats that are encumbered by software patents. So, where is the lie again?

The lie is that Ogg is most likely also encumbered by patents. It just hasn't been tested in court yet. That's why companies such as Apple are wary of it.

As a matter of fact, if Apple (or microsoft, etc) did go ahead and implement Ogg as many FOSS fans are screaming for - then it most likely would result in a legal attack, taking Ogg away from the FOSS fans themselves (as much as it could be taken away). Is that what they want?

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Raymond Meyers — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 01:05:37 -0000

@The Angry Drunk

You don't like their views point out that they're fucking retards breathing up perfectly good oxygen for no apparent reason.

I do.

I'm just sayin'.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Cloud — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 23:49:09 -0000

@Scott

I'm sorry, but " if you don't like their views, don't read em" just doesn't cut it.
Honestly, how do you even come up with a comment like that?
Umm, how about the fact that, had I not read their views, how would I know if I agree or not?
So now that I've suddenly discovered that fsf is full of fearmongering whack jobs. I wish to detail the reasons that they are factually incorrect..

But, you know, I'm just sayin' is all..

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Scott — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 20:09:50 -0000

@The Angry Drunk:
You don't like their views don't read 'em. I'm just say'n.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

baxtrice — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 13:50:12 -0000

Gotta say man, you've certainly made a name for yourself here. Keep it up ( I mean the drinking, no one should take themselves so seriously as the FSF).

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

The Angry Drunk — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:26:05 -0000

@Bob:
First, who are you quoting there, omitting attribution makes it hard to figure out what you're on about.

Second, dialing 911 has fuck all to do with CoreLocation or the OS in general; it's a feature of the phone and, in the U.S. at least, providing GPS when dialing 911 is mandated by law. Do you really want the phone to not provide your location when calling for emergency services. There is a point where you've taken "freedom" just a little too far.

Lastly, just because the FSF claims that Ogg is not patent-encumbered doesn't make it so. There are those of the opinion that Ogg is in violation of at least one major patent.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Wu Ming — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:24:41 -0000

I guess it was already posted, but it seems no one is paying attention to a deeper problem with Ogg: patents.

Wee bit more on AAC

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

John C. Welch — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 12:19:05 -0000

@Bob:

The fact that you see that dialog does not mean that what the FSF said was wrong. The iPhone won’t give you that dialog when you dial 911. (Their problem here is that any other phone would be required to do that as well.)

However, that's not anything Apple nor any other phone manufacturer in the US can do anything about. They're required to provide location info to 911 automatically so, you know, you can actually get the help you're calling for.

For the FSF to use that to imply Apple is allowing any and all to track you is an absolute falsehood, and they know that. So they're stilly lying weasels about that.

All formats that are encumbered by software patents. So, where is the lie again?

Interestingly, there's some current thought that the only reason Ogg hasn't been really scrutinized there is because honestly, no one of consequence is using it.

The other thing is, again, without regards to ideology, Ogg is not "better enough" to justify everyone switching to it. It's a good codec. So is AAC. Both are somewhat better than MP3.

But barring Ogg suddenly being ASTOUNDINGLY better than everything else, why switch?

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Bob — Mon, 21 Jul 2008 11:53:04 -0000

"FSF said: 'iPhone exposes your whereabouts and provides ways for others to track you without your knowledge.'

"BULLSHIT. When any app wants to use CoreLocation on the iPhone, you are presented with a big fat Do Not Allow button, and you can push it if you want. Does that sound like it’s accessing your location without your knowledge?"

The fact that you see that dialog does not mean that what the FSF said was wrong. The iPhone won't give you that dialog when you dial 911. (Their problem here is that any other phone would be required to do that as well.)

"They’re also guilty of lies by omission. The FSF said: 'iPhone won’t play patent- and DRM-free formats like Ogg Vorbis and Theora.'

"But the iPhone DOES play DRM-free formats like MP3, MP4, WAV, AIFF, Lossless, etc. Why do you suppose they left that out? Could it be because that would kind of derail their entire idiotic, oh I’m sorry 'logical' proposition?"

All formats that are encumbered by software patents. So, where is the lie again?

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Gatesbasher — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:41:20 -0000

@Steven Fisher:

Oh, absolutely: without Steve Jobs, Apple would be out of business by now (IMO,) and I don't know anyone else who could have turned them around quite like he has. He has a few bees in his bonnet that I disagree with, but you can't argue with success. My only point is that history could have played out differently if Gasée hadn't been such a prick; I didn't say it would have been better.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Steven Fisher — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:14:29 -0000

I think NeXT was already out of crash. :)

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Raymond Meyers — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 21:01:01 -0000

No Steve Jobs? Or a NeXT logo on the iPod instead of Apple's?

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Steven Fisher — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:52:01 -0000

@Gatesbasher

Sure, Be might have worked. But with Be, there'd have been no Steve Jobs. Instead, we'd have had Jean-Louis Gassée. Mac OS X working without Jobs is certainly possible, but I think it's less likely.

Strictly academic, but I wonder anyway.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Gatesbasher — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:25:03 -0000

@Steven Fisher:

There might have been an alternative: if I remember correctly, Apple's first choice was BeOS, but they priced themselves out of the market.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

john — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:01:21 -0000

@Bucky Slingshot

Why does it have to be all or nothing? Why should “believing in FOSS” mean only using FOSS to the exclusion of all else?

Word.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Steven Fisher — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:00:47 -0000

You know, I'm not entirely convinced Apple made the best decision. Clearly, they made a good one in bringing back Steve Jobs, but I'm less convinced they handled Mac OS X as well as they should have.

I wonder if there was an alternative that would have yielded better results, though. Don't get me wrong: Clearly Copland with the current management team was not it.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

john — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:58:06 -0000

@John C Welch

Actually they did [have working next-generation OS code before acquiring NEXT]. They just didn’t have the internal discipline to get it past one early beta release.

I dunno... speaking as a software engineer, that's a very (very!) fine hair you're splitting.... ;-)

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Steven Fisher — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:52:04 -0000

@Doug Whitfield

Apple in no way blocks free software unless the license it is shipped under requires the code signing key it was signed with be available EVEN IF another code signing key is readily available. If that's the case, blame the person who wrote the license that way.

Honestly, it's also worth noting that even though I -- and most others -- don't care one bit for Ogg, nothing stops a developer from developing a custom player that can play Ogg files. Sure, it wouldn't be iTunes, but the FSF is so talented surely they could come up with something far better, right? So why don't they just write the freaking code and shut up about it?

Oh, I'll tell you why. Because they're a bunch of mouthpieces.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Bucky Slingshot — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:41:27 -0000

@Doug Whitfield:

Um, I think the FSF means the Apple legally locks out free software, which it does.

Except that it doesn't. Do you have evidence of this accusation? Why couldn't one develop a GPL-licensed iPhone application and distribute it through the application store?

Do I think people that believe in FOSS buying an iPhone is terribly misguided? Very much so.

What do you mean by "believe in"? I believe that FOSS exists. I believe it is very good for certain things, and I use plenty of FOSS.

But that doesn't mean that I don't also use proprietary software. Why does it have to be all or nothing? Why should "believing in FOSS" mean only using FOSS to the exclusion of all else? Why does it make it bad to buy and use things that aren't FOSS based?

That's the difference between a freetard and a regular FOSS user/developer right there. The single-minded zealotry and insistence that there is only one correct way of doing things.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

john — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 19:27:47 -0000

@Cloud

"Turns out, apple kicks ass with their open source lovin’"

Yep. They sure do. And, at the risk of getting somewhat flamed, I gotta be honest: I actively respect that about them.

Granted they haven't been accommodating to the most extreme Free Software devotees, but they've got a business to run, after all. What pleases me about how they handle everything is how well they juggle the at-times conflicting concerns.

I'm not sure Jobs himself cares very much at all about it, one way or the other, except in a political capacity... but many of his engineers and project leads certainly do, and it shows.

Plus, special shout-out to Dave Hyatt from the WebKit team, who is not only an excellent project lead, but is very active in the open web community, and excellently transparent about the WebKit team's work.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

John C. Welch — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:19:49 -0000

@Doug Whitfield:

Um, I think the FSF means the Apple legally locks out free software, which it does.

No, but since Jobs isn't giving Stallman and the rest of the FSF their daily rimjobs, therefore making them succumb to the onerous task of actually using toilet paper, it's not like you're going to care about the facts of the situation, already posted here.

Your dismissiveness of the free software community is just as arrogant and misguided as FSF’s zealotry. Some of us DO care about having an open standard for media such as .ogg. If the iPhone did support .ogg, I’d be much more likely to get one.

Other than being politically correct for the freetard Stallmanites, what does OGG offer that AAC doesn't on a technical level. What great advantage does OGG offer as a sound format?

I for one am planning on getting an OpenMoko, for all of it’s faults. I’m happy to be an early adopter.

I like shit that works without having to endlessly fuck with it. When the OpenMoko gets to that point, you let us know.

Do I think the iPhone is evil? no
Do I think people that believe in FOSS buying an iPhone is terribly misguided? Very much so.

Right. They're not evil, just stupid. Honky please, just come out and say it, because it's obvious that you cannot comprehend that not every computer purchase is made with FOSS in mind. Do you have only GPL software in every computer in your house? I already know the answer, and it's "no" because you're forgetting embedded stuff.

Do you only use computing hardware with no patents attached to it whatsoever? No. No you do not.

If you’re not of the FOSS persuasion, by all means buy your iPhone. If you don’t care about legalities, by all means crack it.

If you think that "zealotry" and "logic" are the same thing, by all means, keep your head up Stallman's ass.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Doug Whitfield — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:56:12 -0000

Um, I think the FSF means the Apple legally locks out free software, which it does. Your dismissiveness of the free software community is just as arrogant and misguided as FSF's zealotry. Some of us DO care about having an open standard for media such as .ogg. If the iPhone did support .ogg, I'd be much more likely to get one. I for one am planning on getting an OpenMoko, for all of it's faults. I'm happy to be an early adopter.

Do I think the iPhone is evil? no
Do I think people that believe in FOSS buying an iPhone is terribly misguided? Very much so.

If you're not of the FOSS persuasion, by all means buy your iPhone. If you don't care about legalities, by all means crack it.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Raymond Meyers — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:20:58 -0000

Second sentence should say "It also requires...." I shouldn't comment before my second cup of coffee.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Raymond Meyers — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 11:17:19 -0000

FSF must compete in the marketplace, which requires that you have something your competitors do not have. I also requires that you do things your competitors either don't or can't do. It's impossible to bluff efffectively if all your cards are face up.

Also, for anything – product or service – to succeed there must be an individual responsible for the overall success or failure.

With the exception of Apple, no other platform can lay claim to a single point of contact in the case of a big fuck up.

Every tech company or developer can point a finger. Developers can blame the OS and the hardware. Dell and HP and BlackBerry can blame the OS and the developers. Microsoft can blame everybody else.

Apple stands alone. The face of Apple is Steve Jobs. He makes decisions that decide (not "affect," decide) the fate of a multibillion dollar global corporation. That takes balls of solid rock.

The person who steals Steve Jobs' thunder won't be a committee, cartel, or consortium. It will be an individual who assumes responsibility for the quality of the entire product. That individual will be willing to blame no one but himself for failures. That individual will be a tech visionary with titanium testicles.

It won't be Richard Stallman.

Re: How Did I Miss This Tripe?

Cloud — Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:00:51 -0000

Yeah, my PowerBook is down, so my posts are all iPhone, all the way.. Pardon the typos.

Thanks above posters for bringing a little, well history to our apple history discusion.

There are many reasons not to be an iPhone.
Absolutely none of them apply to me. iPhone has literally revolutionized the way I live. Access to data 24/7 is an amazing thing. No need to wait to get home from work to bash that troll with the hammer of wisdom, just take a bathroom break.
iPhone has replaced my laptop for common tasks.

How about y'all, besides the nitty gritty. Would any of the points raised in the fsf article cause you to not get an iPhone?